The first part of the interview with Mr. Scott Collins was about his early years, about the start of his connections with ocean and his education in reputable American learning institutions as well about his way to the maritime law.
The first part finished with the questions:
“How was the maritime industry in Seattle in the early years of your career?
What was changed in the meantime?”
Mr. Collins started his answer by discussing the transformation of the local fishing industry and continues below, in this second part of the interview, his answer about the evolution of the local maritime industry and of the maritime industry, as actively witnessed by him during more than 30 years of his career in maritime law .
You can come back to the first part of the interview simply by accessing the button below
Scott Collins:
...
There was a time in this city’s history when fishing, shipping, and shipyards were primary industries. Seattle was truly joined at the hip with the sea beside it. While fishing, shipping, and shipyards remain important elements of the Seattle economy, two things have been pushing them out. Seattle’s growth as a center for commerce has brought much industry with it. Our region is now home to the headquarters of Amazon, Microsoft, Starbucks, Costco, Paccar, Alaska Airlines, and Nordstrom, and it remains dependent on Boeing making airplanes locally even though it moved its long-time headquarters out of Seattle years ago. Seattle is one of the U.S.’s primary tech centers, as it is home to large workforces for Infosys, Google, Oracle, Meta (Facebook), Expedia, and Tableau, as it is for a number of large biomedical research companies. All of this growth in commerce has been great for creating vibrant, diverse industries, but tech and retail outshine the grime and grit of the maritime trades. Kids now want to be programmers more than they want to be welders and longshore workers; they want to be venture capitalists more than they want to work a fish boat; and they pursue stock options rather than shares of the catch.
All of this industry and growth has raised the cost of living in Seattle, which is now one of the most expensive places in the U.S. to live. Maritime industry salaries have not been able to keep up with rising tech wages (with stock options). Maritime workers can no longer afford homes in the city, forcing them to move to cities on the fringes of our region and to deal with long, tiresome commutes back and forth to work each day. Property values have increased so much that waterfront businesses are selling off to developers paying top dollar to keep up with an insatiable thirst to live in waterfront housing. Creative programs at the high school, trade school and college levels – like Maritime High School which opened last year – seek to keep a pipeline of workers for the maritime trades full. But even so, many maritime businesses are moving out of Seattle as a way of containing operating (primarily workforce) costs to stay competitive in a competitive industry. Just recently, Foss Shipyard, which has been based in Seattle for decades, closed its Seattle shipyard to focus its ship repair and maintenance efforts at other yards outside the Seattle area.
...
Long proclaimed to be the pleasure boating capital of the U.S., the prosperity Seattleites are now experiencing has fuelled the city’s boating and yachting industry. During the pandemic, a boat dealer client witnessed some of its best years ever, as people were turning to the joy of boating as an outlet to get out from lock-downs with safe social distancing. Seattle has long been considered the boating capital of the U.S., as more boats per capita are owned in Seattle than any other U.S. city.
The progressive innovation that tech has brought to Seattle is now spilling over into maritime sectors. Development of green – really, “blue” – technology has accelerated over the past several years, aided in large part by the State of Washington’s “Maritime Blue” initiative that serves as an incubator for innovation and change fostering a sustainable blue economy. I foresee the innovative Seattle tech sector, with its socially and environmentally conscious bent, embracing and developing new technology as Seattle becomes not just a center for new marine technology, but as a hub as it has been in the software and biomedical fields.
...
For years, the Ports of Seattle and nearby Tacoma competed with each other, until someone came up with the brilliant idea that the two should work together instead of against each other. The Northwest Seaport Alliance resulted, and now the two ports work together as marine cargo operating partnership, jointly managing the container, breakbulk, auto, and some bulk terminals in Seattle and Tacoma. Today, the NSA is the fourth largest container gateway in the U.S. With their proximity to Asian ports, Seattle and Tacoma are of course primary gateways for goods shipped to and from Asia, but they also serve as the main gateway for goods bound to and from Alaska. Trade with Hawaii is also a major part of the local shipping industry.
... and Seattle remains the primary homeport for the North Pacific fishing fleet. Although the Alaska king and opilio (snow) crab fisheries have totally collapsed the past two years, the Bristol Bay, Alaska sockeye fishery this summer just set records for numbers of fish harvested. Other salmon runs have not fared as well, although there are promising indications this year that some of the primary runs in the lower 48 state are slowly making comebacks. (I hope that holds up.) I looked out my office window one morning over the summer and saw dozens of sport fishermen just outside Seattle’s container port targeting the summer Puget Sound salmon run in Elliott Bay just before the fish enter the Duwamish Waterway for their fresh water trek up to spawning grounds. While there will be plenty of fishermen who may disagree with this, overall, the fishing commissions for the North Pacific fisheries (except king and snow crab) have been fairly successful in promoting sustainable fisheries, whereas just about every fishery in every other region in the U.S. seems to be collapsing.
Seattle has also gained dominance as the home port for Alaska cruising, and the cruise ships are back in full force this year after two years of pandemic shutdowns and reductions. These ships bring thousands of tourists to our city each summer, who infuse our hotels, restaurants, and shops with important revenue. Seattle has also been a leader among cruise ports world-wide in providing electric shore power facilities to cruise ships to enable them to shut down their engines and avoid burning fuel and spewing soot while in port. That has been a major win-win for our city and the cruise business. Local authorities have also been very proactive with the cruise industry in regulating vessel discharges in inland waters. Of course, it helps that several cruise lines, including Holland America and Windstar, headquarter in Seattle. One benefit from all these tourists is that Seattle also has a robust “harbor tour” and “evening sail” industry. I was proud to serve as legal counsel for bringing into town the finest tall sailing vessel now operating on Seattle’s waterfront.
Finally, I can’t omit to mention the largest public ferry system in the U.S., the Washington State Ferries. Seattle is a primary port (actually, two ports within the city) for these ferries, with lines from Seattle that call on four other cities across Puget Sound. In fact, some of my colleagues at work commute into the office daily via ferry (both auto ferries and passenger-only ferries). I am excited that the ferry system has now embarked on an ambitious initiative to begin the transition to an emission-free fleet through a hybrid electric ferry system. The bidding process on building a new fleet is under way, and ultimately the Washington State Ferries will be free from burning the 19 million gallons of diesel fuel it consumes each year to support 24 million passengers.
Futureoftheocean: What do you think that are the actual main challenges for the local maritime industry?
Scott Collins: Locally, we have witnessed a dramatically increasing “cost of living” for the reasons I highlighted above. It is expensive to conduct business in Seattle, and it is expensive to pay a “living wage” to the workforce. And it is expensive for workers to live in Seattle. Businesses in other industries have the option to relocate out of the city (which several of my industrial clients have), but maritime businesses can’t (for obvious reasons). Yet, marine businesses operate on tight profit margins and can’t keep up with wages being paid in other industries in Seattle. (Of course, a number of container shipping companies are seeing record profits over the past year, and at least at the moment may be able to keep up with skyrocketing operational costs.) I will be interested to see what wage structures are agreed upon in the current labor negotiations between West Coast port operators and dock workers who are currently working under a lapsed labor contract.
I think the bigger challenge locally (and across the globe) is the labor shortage in all sectors of the maritime industry. Baby boomers are retiring and not enough of the younger generations are filling their shoes. Enrollment at marine trade schools has dipped, and, as a result, those schools are not turning out sufficient talent to meet current personnel demands of the industry. Many youth are uninterested in the traditional jobs of the maritime industry, as they prefer the allure of tech sector positions or the insatiable local hiring by Amazon, Uber, and other gig employers.
I harken back on my oldest daughter’s experience working for a salmon processer in Bristol Bay for five consecutive seasons. This was right before the COVID pandemic. Her company faced real challenges filling all the positions due to labor shortages. Ultimately, the company had to rely on non-Americans to make up most of its workforce. Her team consisted of workers from Russia, Ukraine, Jamaica, Croatia, Mexico, and other points abroad, and one year they faced real shortages and an inability to keep up with the fish. Bringing in foreign workers works when our country’s immigration policies open up the borders for foreign workers, but under the Trump administration getting foreign workers into the country was hard to come by. I don’t think the Biden administration has loosened the restrictions in any significant way. Each spring now our local radio broadcasts are filled with “help wanted” advertisements for seasonal summer fishing work in Alaska.
A short-term challenge in the local shipping industry is getting to a labor agreement between the dock workers and the port operators. Operations have continued since the last contract expired on July 1, but that work won’t go on indefinitely without a contract. Just when the supply chain is beginning to ease up on its backlog over the past year, the West Coast (and the entire country) can ill afford a dock worker strike right now. This is the time when goods are flooding into our country to support retail demands leading up to the Christmas holiday. Many small retailers can’t afford another holiday season without sufficient goods to offer to shoppers.
Futureoftheocean:
The maritime industry is facing now the transition to “Industry 4.0”, the increased interconnectivity and smart automationand in the good tradition of the fast-forward specific for the later decades, “Industry 5.0” hence people working alongside robots and smart machines, seems to be within a hand reach.
I expect that this transition or transitions will have consequences including legal consequences.
How looks this transition from the perspective of such a seasoned professional like you?
Scott Collins:
Yes, indeed. It is those robots, smart machines, and other automation that are at the heart of the current negotiations between the West Coast dock workers and the port operators. That tension between labor and management over automation and robots has existed for decades in many industries, and will continue to persist well into the future. There will always have to be balance allocating tasks and responsibilities between people and robots, but robotics has already revolutionized some industries and I suspect the same will happen to several sectors of the maritime industry (shipping and stevedoring, to name a couple) over the relative short term.
While the capabilities of artificial intelligence are developing by leaps and bounds, I believe that automation will provide plenty of work for lawyers (and insurance underwriters), even with elimination of “human error.” Putting aside all of the intellectual property implications with utilizing AI and other emerging technologies, things break and new circumstances will arise that technology will not be ready to encounter. That will mean malfunctions and accidents, which will mean liability and lawsuits.
I look at the efforts at self-driving autos that several car manufacturers have made. While successful much of the time, there are those outlier events that do occur causing tragedy. And they occur on roads that are well marked. If self-driving technology can’t always perfectly work on roads with lines and signals, how will the technology work at sea where variation of conditions is the norm. In time, I suppose, we will be there, but we’re not now. The recent trans-Atlantic journey by the Mayflower Autonomous Ship was wildly successful by all standards, but it also demonstrated that things break on ships, and onboard personnel will always be needed for successful and timely completion of ocean voyages.
Hybrid human-robotic operations will be the future, but it still means that humans are indispensable to all maritime industries. The question I have is who will hold ultimate onboard authority, a human or an AI assisted machine? The law will change slower than technology will develop – it always does. As a result, law will be reactive. Current law is very clear that the master of a ship holds ultimate onboard authority, and I doubt that will ever change. While AI and robotics take over shipboard operations, the master will still have to retain the ability to override the machine. As with autopilot, masters will have to retain the right and ability to turn it off and take the helm for themselves. With operators who go full in on technology, tension may develop between headquarters and masters when overrides are made, putting masters – who hold the legal liability and license risk – in conflicting positions, a position we never want a master of a large cargo ship to be in.
On the other hand, liability standards often look at what is “reasonable.” Reasonableness is a moving legal target in part because it does call for keeping up with current norms and state of the art, or as we lawyers say, “best practices.” If four shipping companies are employing a particular technology, but a fifth is not, and the non-use of that technology can be blamed for causing a casualty, that non-use may be deemed negligent – or in violation of a reasonableness standard – even though the technology is an emerging one. You can hear the lawyer’s closing argument now – “this fifth company made a business decision not to incur the expense of adopting the new technology like four of its competitors, putting money over safety!” That can be a very persuasive argument to an audience of jurors or judges.
Thus, while law and regulations may be slow to keep up with emerging technologies, standards of care under which a company may be held liable will not. To that end, maritime companies will need “to keep up with the Joneses” as technology develops at accelerating paces. To the extent they don’t keep up, insurance companies may get involved – either by requiring adoption of a technology as a condition to underwriting, or by imposing higher premiums. Companies without a “chief technology officer” to keep up with all the emerging technology would be wise to employ one, who can then advise the C-suite on when a new technology should be adopted or not. Documenting the business reason for such a decision may help rebut the foregoing closing argument.
Futureoftheocean:
I think the reader has now a clearer imagine of the picture of the transformation of the maritime industry during your more than 30 years of carrier and maybe also a glimpse into the challenges coming to us by a rushed and unrested future.
Maybe these are also some key words, rush and unrest, becoming a kind of modern plaque for many of the modern professionals but apparently not for you.
I propose you to discuss in the 3rd part and the last part of this interview about how you manage to keep the right balance between your profession and your private life… and few more other really important topics.
In the meantime Mr. Scott Collins became managing partner of Helsell Fetterman in Seattle.
For information about Helsell Fetterman please visit company’s site:
For contacting Mr. Collins please visit the page:
Seattle
Photo by Thom Milkovicon Unsplash
thom-milkovic-skUTVJi8-jc-unsplash.jpg
Seattle, United States, SpaceNeedle in the Morning
Photo by Timothy Eberly on Unsplash
timothy-eberly-CXEqz2g0j9g-unsplash.jpg
Sailboats at Lake Union in Seattle
zayn-shah-_RgUtyDyBHY-unsplash.jpg
Port of Seattle
Picture provided by Mr. Scott Collins
Seattle’s Fishermen’s Terminal
Picture provided by Mr. Scott Collins
Cruise ship in Seattle
Picture provided by Mr. Scott Collins
Washington State Ferry – evening
Picture provided by Mr. Scott Collins
Seattle Home Prices
Picture provided by Mr. Scott Collins
Seattle, Seattle, United States, Museum of Pop Culture in Seattle
Photo by Anthony Fominon Unsplash
anthony-fomin-LH-rQ2WXk5E-unsplash.jpg
Salmon Processing Crew
Picture provided by Mr. Scott Collins
Aberdeen Diamond Bridge Robot
Street art picture, Credit to Ramona Popa, Futureoftheocean team
Mayflower Autonomous Ship 400
Picture provided by Mr. Scott Collins
White robot human features
Photo by Alex Knight on Unsplash
alex-knight-2EJCSULRwC8-unsplash.jpg
Mr. Scott Collins in 2001
Picture provided by Mr. Scott Collins
Your support and contributions will enable us to meet our goals and improve conditions. Your generous donation will fund our mission.
Copyright © 2018 Future of the ocean - All Rights Reserved.
This website uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you accept our use of cookies.